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Sept 30, 2012 0:54:30 GMT -6
Post by Nick_Witted on Sept 30, 2012 0:54:30 GMT -6
In America, a land tolerant(?) of such a wide range of beliefs, a lot of truths and lies are passed around from place to place at such incredible speeds, that at times it seems difficult to understand exactly what is going on. Some of these come across as Conspiracy Theories. Here's one for you: The government (The "Man") is keeping us dumb, offering a mandatory broken, ignorant, and at times, downright counter-productive education to prepare us for the world.
"If you think of it, children starting school this year will be retiring in 2065. Nobody has a clue, despite all the expertise that’s been on parade for the past four days, what the world will look like in five years’ time. And yet we’re meant to be educating them for it.
So the unpredictability, I think, is extraordinary." - Sir Ken Robinson
Now, don't fret. I'm not here to bash the government and go all 'Dale Gribble' on you, but I believe it's fair to say that if the intentions are fair, the government still is doing a piss-poor job. With the economy where it's at, global warming, missing children, starvation, war, poverty, sex trafficking, and the Ice Capades, sure, everyone has a lot to worry about. ...but why is it that education no longer seems to be a priority? Putting the majority of the efforts into anything else may provide a better future relative to those issues, but let's face it, if we were all educated properly, we would be able to deal with those issues better when the time came. Not only will these issues improve simultaneously, and gradually over time, with a proper education, our government would improve as well. Who else is better to vote for our politicians, those who govern our day-to-day lives than those who were educated with great care? At the moment, we live in a country where you must be of a certain age to vote, but not of a certain academic status. While I am saddened to say this, it is not uncommon to vote for "Whoever, just because I can." Hell, I could go the extra mile and pull out the good ol' "Because he's black." ...and I really hate to say this, but when Obama was elected, this was the biggest reason I heard people say they were voting. Not because of what he was doing, but because of what he was. If we were properly taught in schools to judge not by the color of someone's skin, but by the content of their character, maybe he would have been elected by a society made up of intelligent members, who cared not what he looked like. "Without an education there is no real democracy, without an education there is only hypocrisy." - Serj Tankian I feel what has been stated up to this point screams the importance of education, yet this is one of many points to be made. In the future, I will continue to post my ideas and beliefs about education, and I wish for you to respond with feedback. If you think I am wrong in my points, I would love to discuss this here with you. The idea of fixing education is sort of a passion of mine, and I will take your feedback seriously. Until next time~ ~Nick_Witted |
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acostafox
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Sept 30, 2012 9:24:16 GMT -6
Post by acostafox on Sept 30, 2012 9:24:16 GMT -6
I completely agree that education needs to be a much higher priority in Washington. What's disconcerting is that both right and left are wrong on this one, as far as I'm concerned, and neither party cares too much about raising funding considerably--drastically--which is what needs to happen. We have used property taxes and economic status to put a warm blanket over the utter inequity that exists today.
Blue Valley North is ludicrously nice, the facilities exceptional, the structure so harmonious it cannot help but relay the message: Students, if you go here, you are important. Respect yourself. Lots of schools in poorer neighborhoods do not look like this and do not send this message. Instead, they say something like: You are not important, and that's why we've built this place for you a while ago. Remain in your place or you'll be kicked out, beaten up, mocked, arrested.
[I'm also listening to California Uber Alles by The Dead Kennedys at the moment so take that for what it's worth.]
That being said, the chief financial issues aside, I think there also exists a dearth of support for real education, real teaching. Like I said, right and left agree on standardized education (even though they don't always say they do, they do; literally no one in power argues against some form of standards, testing, grades, evaluation, etc.). What is teaching supposed to look like? What is education supposed to look like? And how should we "evaluate" students--and what is the purpose of that evaluation? What are the ideal students we are trying to create? Because if the answer is, "Students who can compete in the emerging global marketplace" count me the f*&# out. [Remember: Dead Kennedys, now The Clash.]
My answer: we must create an environment wherein students can become self-actualized human beings, where they are drawn to participate in the Great Conversations around truth and meaning, the ongoing pursuit of REAL knowledge that has been the focus of great thinking for millenia. We have gotten away from teaching--or, importantly, even THINKING ABOUT--meaning, and we just focus on behaviors, even if some of those behaviors seem like genuine thinking.
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Sept 30, 2012 10:51:48 GMT -6
Post by Nick_Witted on Sept 30, 2012 10:51:48 GMT -6
There is no doubt that the message given to students differs greatly depending on the school.
"You are not important, and that's why we've built this place for you a while ago. Remain in your place or you'll be kicked out, beaten up, mocked, arrested." - Acostafox
I would hesitate to say that Washington High School is in this particular category, although I will say it is much closer to this than it is the White-Devil breeding grounds that is Blue Valley. I do believe that CitrusMistress has attended schools of both sorts, so I will direct her to this thread later today to get her opinion on the matter.
I believe that we could correct this by omitting the current idea of school pride from our education. School pride is shown by colors, and game scores, and the short skirts of dancers on the sidelines, (We can get into in-school sexuality later, it's also an important subject.), not by the grades made, or even better, the knowledge attained. If we were to instill, with sincerity, the love and value of learning into children, we could almost leave education as it is and we as people would learn enough on our own to support ourselves. I wish it were true that our curriculum wasn't so discouraging towards knowledge. Going to school takes me out of a learning mood. It coops me with a bunch of loud, ignorant people, who seem to be there for the same reason that I am... to not learn. I have bad grades, and I admit that willingly. I have not yet seen the benefits of conquering this half-assed system based on nothing more than popularity and what you can regurgitate onto a paper, and until I am convinced, I feel I will never work to my full potential while within the walls of a prison school.
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acostafox
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Sept 30, 2012 12:07:07 GMT -6
Post by acostafox on Sept 30, 2012 12:07:07 GMT -6
You should definitely read some John Taylor Gatto, the educational-anarchist. I don't quite go as far as Gatto (he says there should be no school, for lots of reasons he explains) but I think he diagnoses many of the problems of the system well. (Personally I think schools are a sacred public trust that cannot be abandoned but must be RADICALLY improved.)
Here's the Jonathan Kozol quote I was looking for earlier that I just ended up paraphrasing: "Kozol says segregated schools convey the message to the children there that 'you have been sequestered in this institution so you will not contaminate the education of white people.'"
The thing that kills me most about schools is how passive they make people become, especially students. Students are taught to sit around until a teacher tells them to do something. This is the opposite of how progress occurs. No one told Galileo: Hey, what's the deal with things falling. Work on that for a while. He just did it; see Plato on mimesis, Aristotle on drama, etc. etc. etc. the history of knowledge is the history of great people driven to understand the world in which they live and the potential meaning/s of that world.
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Sept 30, 2012 21:25:07 GMT -6
Post by citrusmistress on Sept 30, 2012 21:25:07 GMT -6
I can't say I have much to argue here, though I am aware there are other viewpoints on this subject.
As Nick_Witted mentioned, I have been to both sorts of schools discussed here. I don't think either of you are too far off in your assumptions; though I have seen a medium between the extremes.
While attending a very well-funded school in a Kansas City suburb, I noticed the attitude of the students was different than those I'd attended elsewhere. There was a sense of entitlement. People seemed to have a very different view on what was important. It felt like being in another world, where there was no "after high school," there was only the daily Issues of Drama like the ones you see in reality TV high school shows (yes, television got something right for once). Students and administration alike seemed to have forgotten that being better-funded didn't mean that they were entitled to *anything*, but that being better-funded means they have a larger opportunity to learn and grow, an opportunity that other schools don't have (not that they didn't think that they were better than other schools---
I mean, they thought they'd invested their funds better than other schools).
Being in a not-so-nicely funded high school was an entirely other playing field, with a whole new set of rules. There seems to be a lot more focus on standardised test scores, much more mandatory "school spirit," and a larger (or maybe more distinct) separation between those who don't care about learning and those who do.
It always felt like students and teachers were being pushed to become "up to par" with those who are well-funded.
Where well-funded schools seem to focus on keeping their nice reputation and improving their volleyball team and getting more students into AP, less-funded schools seem to focus more on achieving test scores that match or beat the upper-class schools.
Either way, it means that the administration and (majority of) teachers are no longer focusing on encouraging growth and thought and originality in their students, but instead, on outdoing each other.
I believe it's already been stated why this is a serious problem; we've got the materials and means to fix the problems we see all over the world, but not the education and common sense with which to handle them.
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Sept 30, 2012 23:11:50 GMT -6
Post by Nick_Witted on Sept 30, 2012 23:11:50 GMT -6
This post will be a bit more personal. I am a guy with one dream. My goal on this earth is to, well, fix the Goddamn thing. We all know it's broken, and no one is doing a thing to fix it, it seems. So, the issue is, with such a gross educational system, how can I be expect to subject myself to such a miserable day-to-day existence, to get an education, and be respected enough to be able to help change this system? I feel as if it is my duty to become an academic failure, but successful in the relevant world, and to those oppressing the children who would have been destined to lead tomorrow, I say: There is nothing stopping me. I am big, I am loud. I am better than you, because I won't hold myself back, and I won't let you do it either. “You know, sometimes kids get bad grades in school because the class moves too slow for them. Einstein got D's in school. Well guess what, I get F's!!!”
― Bill Watterson I believe that it is my turn to break the mold. It seems that many people who break free of this prison run, as the others silently cry in their cell, but not I. I will walk slow, and pick every damn lock, if I've got to. Now is not the time to fear the security, for every door unlocked earns you an ally to help beat off the guards. What will I do when I the prisoners? I will set the guards, and the warden on a nearby hill, and force them to watch as I slowly tear down the prison and use the bricks to build something much more useful... a school, and a damn good one at that. ...and with that, I leave you with one more thought. “Ideally, what should be said to every child, repeatedly, throughout his or her school life is something like this: 'You are in the process of being indoctrinated. We have not yet evolved a system of education that is not a system of indoctrination. We are sorry, but it is the best we can do. What you are being taught here is an amalgam of current prejudice and the choices of this particular culture. The slightest look at history will show how impermanent these must be. You are being taught by people who have been able to accommodate themselves to a regime of thought laid down by their predecessors. It is a self-perpetuating system. Those of you who are more robust and individual than others will be encouraged to leave and find ways of educating yourself — educating your own judgements. Those that stay must remember, always, and all the time, that they are being moulded and patterned to fit into the narrow and particular needs of this particular society.”
― Doris Lessing |
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Oct 3, 2012 16:03:47 GMT -6
Post by msaisha01 on Oct 3, 2012 16:03:47 GMT -6
The points you all are making are good ones, but I feel a little differently on the subject. At this point, you all feel, as though our education is crap and that there should be a change. I feel the same way, but at the same time we, as humans, have a natural need to change and do something more or better than the last person. No matter how legit our education system, or even economic system is, there will always be those who want to change it or those who feel as though it could be better. Face it; the world is full of IMPERFECT people, meaning we all make mistakes. Many blame the curriculum when really; I see the problems being countless. What is the definition of a perfect education system? If you can legitimately answer that question without another person being apposed to it, there isn't one. Hell... If anything needs to change, it's the teachers, NOT the curriculum. Of course not every person understands things in the same way as the next one so yes; there are going to be those who slack off and not do their work in class. I totally agree with Nick_Witted about kids coming to class not doing anything and even worse, not even caring that they're not doing anything. But face it, children, correction: human beings determine whether or not they want to learn based on their respect for their teacher. I'm not saying your teachers should be your friends, but they should at least present themselves according to their status. They should function as though they are passionate about what they do. The main people giving up are the teachers! If teaching is apparently what they want to do in life, why not strive at it? There will always be obstacles in any occupation; you just have to conquer them. Giving up on a student shouldn't be allowed. If they're coming to class, they can learn, period. I hear too many teachers saying, "I'm not going to teach you if you don't want to learn." If I heard about a teacher saying that to a child of mine, I'd be having a talk with both the teacher and my child. As a parent (which I'm not), I wouldn't be sending my child to school for them NOT to be learning. I see it like this... a teacher will always be the beginning of a successful individual. Teachers are the reason for a person's knowledge. So, in that case, a teacher giving up on teaching is not doing their job. So… if we’re looking for a scapegoat, I say the teachers.
This is just what I got out of the conversation.
"I have come to believe that a great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of the arts since the medium is the human mind and spirit." - John Steinbeck
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Oct 3, 2012 18:06:35 GMT -6
Post by citrusmistress on Oct 3, 2012 18:06:35 GMT -6
msaisha01 has made very good points, I think. I do agree that teachers also need to be trying harder, as I see about as small of a percentage of decent teachers as I do students.
However, when I read your post, I felt like you didn't think the actual curriculum or entire setup needed changed (though correct me if I'm wrong). Yes, the educational system is imperfect. Yes, we are all imperfect people. Yes, the educational system will NEVER be perfect, especially not for everyone. That does not mean that we need to stop trying.
You and I, and Nick_Witted, acostafox, everyone in the world will never be perfect. But it doesn't mean we can't improve. You said yourself it's human nature to keep trying. It's that moment when we all stop trying to improve that we start regressing.
We all need to try to fix the educational system, I think. It starts with ourselves: we personally need to continue to learn and grow; our teachers should never stop trying to inspire that in us, and should never stop trying to help us learn; and so on up the educational ladder.
msaisha01, I really do appreciate your quote from Steinbeck. The wonderful teachers that I've been with really did seem an artist to me. They had a passion for knowledge, and really cared about seeing us learn and actually think for ourselves. I can't imagine even going to school were it not for those few inspiring teachers I've had.
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Oct 3, 2012 23:03:39 GMT -6
Post by msaisha01 on Oct 3, 2012 23:03:39 GMT -6
(I should probably work on separating my paragraphs.)
Citrusmistress, I totally agree that our educational system could use some work, but to what extent? Or is there no extent? I also understand that we should remain consistent in improving the system as the year’s progress. There are definitely some problems that could be addressed. I’m just unsure as to what goal you’re hoping to reach. (?)
Every teacher makes an impression on each and every one of his or her students, be it good or bad. The student then decides whether or not to learn. Regardless of whether the content is boring or not, a student will pay attention and do his or her work for either of three reasons: his/her parents requires them to do the work, the student genuinely wants to do the work for themself, or they want to do the work to impress their teacher, out of their respect for him/her. Then, there are those that just don’t do their work at all. And what happens to those kids? Either the teachers don’t care or they’re “punished”.
And what is the sort of punishment we see happening today in our schools? Oh... just things like SUSPENSION: students missing MORE school than they can afford to miss already. This is supposed to make the student want to learn? This is giving a student a “vacation” for not wanting to learn, and giving them an opportunity to miss out on more work, which eventually causes them to resent school. Sure… let’s mess with a child’s education, since he/she didn’t want to learn. So much for “no child left behind”. This is definitely something I’d like to see some change in.
The reason I want to know what the overall goal is to changing this crappy system is because there are so many complex details that go into “altering” education. Changing a few things could be minor issues to the major problem, which I see as the teachers, well not just the teachers. I’m not saying the educational system is perfect, but I’m not saying the teachers are either. Teachers should be the main focus, because without a good teacher, the content could be irrelevant. If in fixing our educational system, we include raising the bar for our teachers, I couldn’t disagree.
I’m pretty sure we all have an idea as to which teachers are good ones, based on experience. It’s a shame (well… for the teacher) when a student can point out a bad teacher. I’m not sure about anyone else, but I don’t want a piss poor teacher just so I can “pass” a class. That’s a waste of my time and education. I do not go to school for eight hours a day to leave having to think of whether I learned something new or not.
I think we’re pretty much on the same page though, maybe?
(I know I jumped around on my thoughts a little bit. That’s just how I function.)
But in my honest to self-opinion, it’s a mental concept toward oneself. Anyone can do whatever he or she wants in life if they have the mindset to do it, regardless of the “education” we’re provided with.
So… with that being said:
“Those who set goals prepare for the worst and hope for the best, but those who do not, won’t stop at the best; there are no boundaries.” –Aisha Craig
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